Author Topic: Unk Cancellation and "OLD STAMP" marking  (Read 3663 times)

Farley Katz

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Re: Unk Cancellation and "OLD STAMP" marking
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2014, 10:36:42 PM »
Well, it looks pretty clear that the OLD STAMP... marking is a fake. There were only three OLD STAMPS NOT RECOGNIZED markings used (plus manuscript ones and one sticker).  Those markings are highly desirable and well catalogued and this one doesn't match any of them. 
Farley Katz
San Antonio

Manuel Iglesias

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Re: Unk Cancellation and "OLD STAMP" marking
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 08:52:11 PM »
Bubba and Farley,
 
Honestly I don't see an inner circle.
It is 1749 from 1964 edition not 1749 from 1983 edition, you have to see the old and new Schatzkes. That was the point I was trying to make it clear by informing the Schatzkes revision committee since the cancel is not in the "new 1983 Schatzkes". The 1749 cancel in the1983 edition is NOT the one I am talking about. Here is another item with a better cancel.
Best regards,
Manuel.

Bubba Bland

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Re: Unk Cancellation and "OLD STAMP" marking
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 01:16:34 PM »
Farley and Manuel,
The cancel is Sz 1749 and is one of the most common used on the 1861 stamps from Veracruz. I have attached a picture of two examples, with one showing part of the inner circle and another without this. The inner circle apparently just does not show well. Actually, judging from the prints the one that shows part of the ring was used later than the one that I have pictured on the right that appears to be an early print. The stamp you have pictured also appears to be an early print.
Regarding the use of the US postmark 'Old Stamps", I think that what may have happened is that the Mexican stamp was applied to the cover at the VCZ post office. A un real was required for delivery to the ship that may have taken the cover to a US port, such as New Orleans. A US stamp was applied somewhere along this trip, and likely in the US. During the time when the new issues had been printed and the old issues were still in the hands of many people, especially businesses, people were still using them without realizing they were no longer valid. So, when the letter arrived at say New York, it was stamped with the 'Old Stamps' regardless of the fact that the Mexican stamp was still valid. The reason that it is possible to have a lone Un Real on the cover is that in 1861 almost all covers going overseas were sent due or only paid ship carrier fees from the port.
Just my take on this interesting stamp. Too bad this was ever removed from the cover. It would have been worth tons of money.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 01:20:05 PM by Bubba Bland »
A collector of Dos Reales of the first design. Always having fun.

Farley Katz

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Re: Unk Cancellation and "OLD STAMP" marking
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2014, 11:59:46 PM »
Manuel-
Thanks for the quick solution!  Sz 1749 (1983 edition) is very similar but has an inner circle not present here or in your example.  Maybe there are two similar marks or maybe the 1983 drawing is incorrect.

Farley Katz
San Antonio

Manuel Iglesias

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Re: Unk Cancellation and "OLD STAMP" marking
« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2014, 10:32:42 PM »
Farley,
 
Very interesting. The cancel that you are looking for is listed in Schatzkes 1964 edition (#1749) but not in the latest 1983 edition. Spuff, Jesper, Pete and others working in the Schatzkes revision should be informed about this fact in case they are not aware.
Best regards,
Manuel.

Farley Katz

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Unk Cancellation and "OLD STAMP" marking
« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2014, 03:30:49 PM »
This 1861 Hidalgo from Vera Cruz has a red marking "OLD STAMP" and a circular postmark I can't identify.  I posted it on the frajola website and they say that the OLD STAMP is a forgery, probably based on the "OLD STAMP/NOT RECOGNIZED" markings used by the Union starting in 1861 when older stamps were demonetized.  I guess that's right as I can't imagine what purpose that marking in English would serve here, anyway.

But can anyone id the underlying cancellation?  I oriented the image to show that it seems to have large, italic "3" near the bottom, but maybe I'm misreading it.  I don't think it's Sz 1757A and I can't find any match for it.

Any ideas?

Thanks.


Farley Katz
San Antonio